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| Why didn't King Kai teach the other Z-fighters his techniques?; Such as Kaioken and Genki Dama. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 5 2018, 06:08 PM (1,649 Views) | |
| Bad User | Jan 5 2018, 06:08 PM Post #1 |
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Yeah, why didn't he bother? As far as we know, they were better than Goku at his first arrival. He took 3 weeks (or more, some dubs are confusing) to catch Bubbles, whereas Piccolo, for example, took seconds. They had much more potential and it would've been extremely useful in the long run. For example, against Buu, they wouldn't have had to die and wait for Goku to come all the way from the other side. Or Kaioken, that could've improved their abilities a lot. Not to mention the immediate emergency. Kai knew that Frieza and the Ginyu Tokusentai learned about Goku, Gohan and Krillin's presence, so if s*** went down south, maybe after they were revived (if), their help would have been required as soon as possible. Or simply just for the lolz, because one can't be sure when such abilities would come in handy. So again...y he no? |
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| Thiln | Jan 5 2018, 08:52 PM Post #2 |
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Not much of a tangible in-universe reason was offered on why they weren't outfitted with King Kai's techniques. I feel like the most obvious out of universe explanation is that Toriyama didn't have much material for them after the Saiyan and Freeza arcs respectively. His commitment appeared to be shifting on over to the Saiyans and Piccolo primarily with the rest filling the role that was once occupied by Roshi at the end of DB. It's unfortunate but those were the characters who were helping to move the narrative along now. Some of the humans still had an occasional moment of glory like Tien with his Kikoho briefly subduing Cell. In Toriyama's defence, I imagine it would have been difficult to give four extra characters meaningful screen time when he was already writing for five in the Cell arc. You're talking about nine fighters altogether that you have to rotate through. The Buu arc would make this even more difficult as you now have Goten to account for. |
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| Mike XL | Jan 5 2018, 09:20 PM Post #3 |
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I'm guessing he was holding back because he didn't want them to think they could defeat Freeza with those techniques. He knew Goku and the others were going to Namek Another explanation could be that non Saiyans may not have the natural durability to handle the strain on the body of the Kaioken. Edited by Mike XL, Jan 5 2018, 09:22 PM.
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| + Son-Goku | Jan 5 2018, 10:15 PM Post #4 |
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孫悟空
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Really there's no excuse for him to not to have taught it. Spirit Bomb maybe makes a bit more sense and if he had taught it to them we would've never have known it. Kaioken would've been used probably agains the Cell Juniors and there's really no reason for King Kai to have not taught them at least Kaioken. Perhaps he refused because of the way Goku pushed himself too far and he didn't want the others doing that. I'm sure Toriyama didn't give it to them because it was Goku's technique or because he didn't want to give the Yamcha, Tien, and Chiaotzu something Krillin didn't have. |
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| Axl | Jan 5 2018, 11:21 PM Post #5 |
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Because, they were pretty much trash. King Kai probably knew they couldn't make use of any of his techniques and teachings to the fullest like how Goku could. It's somewhat even hinted in the show that aside from Goku, probably only Tenshinhan made some use of King Kai's training. Tenshinhan even somewhat alludes to this being as a possibility when he comments to himself about what he should do to be efficient with his training on Kaiou's planet. Let's be honest. It wouldn't really have mattered even if they learned King Kai's techniques. I mean, Piccolo's plot boosts pretty much outweighs the Kaioken. Didn't like Piccolo powers somewhat boosted by just like sitting in Kaio's planet? And then he gets one by fusing with Nail. It also makes sense for Piccolo to not learn anything from King Kai because he kinda disrespected King Kai. If you ask me it was a good decision from King Kai to not to teach Piccolo anything. Yamacha and Chiaotzu pretty much became useless bums after the Saiyan arc. Tenshinhan's case is debatable since he possible could have adapted King Kai's training to amplify his Shin Ki Kou Hou. |
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Axl Reviews:The Casual Version | |
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| StrenuousSpider | Jan 5 2018, 11:47 PM Post #6 |
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A namekian would logically be able to achieve a much higher kaioken then a sayain so i see no reason why he would not teach piccolo but honestly i see that more of piccolo doing his own thing then kai not teaching him. I can understand the idea of a humans body being less capable of holding the strain of kaioken. Spirit bomb is easy to explain in piccolos case as he still had some evil in him at that time and its impossible for evil to use spirit bomb. Both techniques where supposedly extremely hard to do so. So maybe that sayain biology of being able to copy techniques easily came in handy. Maybe kai did teach them kaioken and spirit bomb but they were simply not able to do so. |
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| Bad User | Jan 6 2018, 11:28 AM Post #7 |
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Most, if not all of the plot holes out there can be explained by 'Toriyama'. I just wanted to see how much it makes sense, though. I see why creating a manga on a long-term can affect some aspects of the story to the point where perfect logic doesn't find its way anymore. However, it takes more commitment than that, when starting a new arc, always take the patience and review your whole story beforehand, eventually make some charts to make sure your work has continuity. I fail to realize, for example, how the entire DB and the first saga of DBZ partially revolves on tails as a weakness, then 1-2 sagas after you simply forget about them.
But why make him a variable in the first place, though? He is a 7-years-old inexperienced child. He had no real fight until then, compared to Gohan, who was brutally trained for 6 months, took some hell of a beating until 6-years-old and attempted to fight some of the strongest warriors in the galaxy. Also, Goten had no real training either, unless we count Chichi's training as a real 'Super Saiyan maker'. Goku had to train at 100G before, Gohan -we already learned about him- and Vegeta was in a continuous training his whole life, too. So, by giving Goten and Trunks SSJ just by snapping fingers only destroyed the beloved concept of SSJ being a rare power that's achieved only under extreme training and powerful emotions. Even worse, after being hyped up, they are kicked in the background and forgotten about. That's why, instead of overpowering two newbie children just to milk the Saiyan culture for fan-service, they could've given some credit to the old fighters and Kai training them for Kaioken and Genki Dama would have been a start point.
Alright, but he knew that Goku and co. would probably be in danger and some of the dead Z-fighters might have to go to their aid (as we saw with Piccolo), so what would have been the logical action? 'Don't teach them my techniques because what if they'd think they'd be useful' or 'They might be needed for help, so I should teach them as much as I can for any fortuitous case'?
So that was King Kai's reason, huh? What a moron.
I also believe warrior-type Namekians have a great deal of potential. Nail had a power level of 42k, while Vegeta had 18k when he first arrived on Earth and declared himself 'the strongest in the universe' and 24k when he was about to confront Guru's bodyguard. Also, Namekians don't have training facilities (gravity rooms, time chambers etc.) like other species, I assume. I don't know why Saiyans are the only ones in the U7 believed to be potent enough to aspire to greatness. Also, I don't know if Piccolo wasn't eager to be trained, necessarily. He mostly lost patience over Kai's overwhimsical nature. And we can see the other Z-fighters training with dumbbells and stuff, Kai didn't really do much for them. |
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| POOHEAD189 | Jan 7 2018, 01:21 AM Post #8 |
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I believe there was a quote by Tien saying he was planning on learning King Kai's techniques while putting his own 'spin' on them. I believe it is implied that is how he created the "Neo" Kiko-Ho. |
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| Dagon | Jan 9 2018, 06:51 AM Post #9 |
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Toriyama forgot about Kaio-Ken. Simple as that. |
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| Kblo247 | Jan 9 2018, 09:34 AM Post #10 |
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Because Goku didn’t listen and almost killed himself. He told goku don’t go over the normal kaioken but he didn’t listen. It tore his body apart. Goku is a saiyan so he should recover from it whereas it may kill the humans. That and he knows piccolo is so stubborn that he would probably over do it too. Then with the spirit bomb, he didn’t want just anyone pulling genki and wasn’t thrilled imo when Krillin took the energy and formed one. Plus unlike Krillin you can’t form a spirit bomb with any evil or malice in you. Tien and Chiotzu are former assasains, Yamaha is a former bandit, piccolo is the demon king reborn. None of them are close to pure. Hell Krillin is the only one who is pure amongst his friends Basically Goku Edited by Kblo247, Jan 9 2018, 09:36 AM.
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| Dear Leader | Jan 9 2018, 01:18 PM Post #11 |
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Good point. Also, human bodies probably couldn't handle the stress of the Kaioken. The intensive training they did with King Kai was done in dead bodies which are more durable and all they did after that was useless Earth training. And even if they did master it to some huge multiplier like x50, it wouldn't make a difference against the bad guys. Tien would be lucky to survive a clash with Captain Ginyu by the Buu saga. |
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| Goddess Ultimecia | Jan 9 2018, 01:23 PM Post #12 |
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I don't get the idea that they weren't taught it because it was dangerous, in the same way I don't get people saying certain transformations are useless because of drain. These battles are usually to the death, and, furthermore, usually have the entire world at stake. You're either dying trying or dying while sitting idly by because you're scared of a little pain to the body. That's horses***.
Edited by Goddess Ultimecia, Jan 9 2018, 01:26 PM.
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| Bad User | Jan 9 2018, 01:58 PM Post #13 |
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How could he forget when Kai was training them right after Goku used Kaioken against Vegeta and also in the meantime when Goku dropped a Kaioken on Ginyu?
Just like Goddess Ultimecia graciously emphasized, they can either die giving their best or die by the hands of their enemies. So, we expect Kai to be smarter than that. Also, 'Why should I learn those f***ers some techniques that can improve their power and make a difference in any life or death matter? No, I won't, because Goku is stupid and made a mistake (questionable, as previously proved)!!!'. That's pretty dumb for someone with so much authority in the universe.
And Goku is part of a brutal race and started off as a pretty exuberant member, until he lost his memory. Also, purity is a very subjective concept. Tien, Chaotzu, even Yamaha got pretty pure by then. Hell, nowadays, even Vegeta and Piccolo are purer than Goku. How can someone so pure-hearted become the careless and selfish ignorant bastard he is in Super? |
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| Kblo247 | Jan 9 2018, 02:30 PM Post #14 |
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Well in context Gokus malice and purity leave him when he transforms. Krillin said it to tien, goku cant form a spirit bomb at all while transformed which is why he reverts to his base. It’s not a theory but a fact as Krillin also says he can go kaioken x20 Blue. They have been written as training off screen together since the forest. So base goku that walks around care free like an idiot has no ill intent. He is just carefree and gives no f***s as he makes decisions. He can even still ride nimbus as we are shown so he basically only lets the saiyan out when he goes super or blue, and we know adult Krillin can form a bomb as well despite never being trained in the technique formally. I also think them writing the whole goku cant form a spirit bomb while transformed but is another way to make Trunks special as it implies he more so than anyone else is that pure. He can form a spirit bomb or spirit sword while in ssj rage because his intentions and heart are second to none Edited by Kblo247, Jan 9 2018, 02:33 PM.
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| superperfectnerd | Jan 9 2018, 04:12 PM Post #15 |
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Piccolo could have stomped the androids and even Perfect Cell with kaiokenX20 after his ROSAT training. Although if he'd had kaioken Piccolo's base power would have been reduced to compensate, although that would make his strength more logical considering Piccolo over the 3 years of training went from weaker than base Vegeta to almost as strong as a ssj. His boosts were monstrous compared to the others when traditionally he'd always remained below base Goku. I just attribute this to new potential due to his fusion with Nail but if he'd had kaioken his gains could have been smaller and his kaioken amp bigger due to namekian regen. |
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